The Abortion Circus

every day 21 new-born babies get given to the wrong parents. need i say more.

Abortion should be saved for truly tragic situations, ie rape.

Abortions should be saved for rape? Do we only have like 14 left as a race and need to save them for special occasions?

Nope. But it beats the 'abortions as a for of cosmetics' view that some people have today. "Oops. I was screwing around and got pregnant. Time to vaccuum it out and repeat the whole process." Totally irresponsible.

I find your attitude, Steve, to be totally irresponsible. Firstly, you speak from a female's perspective and state: "Oops. I was screwing around and got pregnant". Well, it takes two to tango, buddy! Men need to take responsibility for preventing pregnancies, too. And is not men who are screwing around as well? You imply that unwanted pregnancies are a punishment for promiscuous women. Sadly, we still live in a society where women are not allowed to be sexually active without being the victims of a certain amount of social stigma. Furthermore, many women are very cautious about using protection, but condoms and the Pill are NOT infallible. Sometimes, technology fails despite our best intentions. Forcing a women to undergo a pregnancy that would be detrimental to her (emotionally, financially, etc) is not a solution. To suggest that women have abortions for "cosmetic reasons" is to wholly misunderstand the social and economic forces that shape women's decisions. It's been said before and I'll say it again: the only person who has the right to control a woman's body is the individual woman.

The social stigma against promiscuous women, is kept alive by women themselves.

Get a condom. Pop a pill. And pull it out! If you still get pregnant, it's the second coming of christ, so better abort!

A woman has the power to prevent pregnancy. She can avoid the situation. In this way, she has control of her body.

And is the woman's need for control always more important than the child? Why?

"The social stigma against promiscuous women, is kept alive by women themselves." It's also kept alive by men such as Steve.

"A woman has the power to prevent pregnancy. She can avoid the situation. In this way, she has control of her body." Men can avoid the situation, too. Don't preach abstinence for women if you aren't going to preach it for men, as well.

"And is the woman's need for control always more important than the child? Why?" Because woman aren't pregnant with children, they're pregnant with embryos. But that opens up a whole other debate which I won't touch. Basically, a woman should be able to decide if she has the mental, emotional, and economic resources to raise a child. Otherwise, she would just be bringing a kid into the world who would be disadvantaged. If society really cared about the rights of the child, we would have free child care for everyone. Instead, services that are designed to help single mothers (and families in general) are severely underfunded. To qoute Dr. Botting, my medical Anthropology prof, when she decribed the Bush Administration: "they want to gaurantee a child's right to life, but not it's right to a good one."

Abstinence isn't being preached. Sense is.

If you think you might get pregnant or make someone pregnant, you shouldn't be doing it.

If at least one of the people involved has their shit together enough to realize this, then the pregnancy won't happen.

And as far as her ability to decide, the point is, where was everyone's decision making abilities when they were getting it on?

Right now, the deadline to making up one's mind is a certain amount of time into the pregnancy. Why isn't the deadline at conception?

Anonymous is missing the point. Abortions are intended for unwanted pregnancies. Unwanted usually implies unintended. People who have abortions didn't MEAN to get pregnant (in most cases), so they made that choice before conception occurred, and it occurrred unbeknownst to them. Like I said, technology can fail and people can get pregnant even when they thought they were protected. Nobody gets pregnant for the sole purpose of having an abortion.

Why can't we bring back capital punishment, to deal with other unwanted people?

ahahaha. Honestly, when you get under those covers and get it on, aren't you accepting the risks that are implied by doing so? You jump out of a plane with the intention of landing safely on the ground. You didn't intend on your parachute being full of forks and knives, resulting in yourself being splattered over a 2km radius. (that is unless you stab yourself to death with the cuttlery on the way down). Abortions are a choice. They shouldn't be something that is either right or wrong. It's all based on circumstance.

I am in no way against the promiscuity of women, and I take care of my own protection.

That said, if I got a woman pregnant, I'd want her to keep it. I'd probably drag the quality of my life right now the shit hole, but I'd want her to keep it because it'd be the right thing to do.

The above mentality "Oh, I screwed around, time to vaccuum it out and continue screwing around" mentality is prevalent in men, as well. I mentioned it from a woman's perspective, because in today's society, it is ultimately the woman's choice.

... which is not to say I agree with it. I don't believe you should be able to kill a fetus, whether you're a man or a woman. Because as soon as it becomes a fetus, its no longer part of the woman's body or part of the mans. Its developing humnan being.

I think abortion should be saved for tragic situations like rape. You don't agree with me, fine. But its nice of you to bash me for being a bad person when I'm stating my own thoughts and opinions which just happen to be against the murder of fetuses. Slick ... very slick.

I wasn't bashing you per se, I was bashing your opinions which, I believe, is perfectly acceptable in a debate.

just checking if we can use <i> html tags </i>

@anonymous:
>>If you think you might get pregnant or make someone pregnant, you shouldn't be doing it.

I hope you enjoy your life of abstinence buddy.

Shouldn't, mustn't, who gives a fuck. People screw, shit happens. We don't need to exacerbate crappy situations by having people have kids that obviously aren't ready for them.

If the choice is between ruining 3 lives (yours, the woman's, and the kid's), or killing something that's the equivalent of a mouse, guess what side I'll be on.

But it all boils down to, is an embryo the same as a human?
If you think it is, do you believe that an abortion is just as bad as murdering a 12 year old? C'mon. Think about it for just one second and realize how illogical that is. There's shades of grey. A baby dies shortly after birth, that's a big loss for anyone, but imagine if you had a 10 year old that died. That would be so much worse.

>> "I'm pro-lets-try-to-avoi d-this-situation-in- the-first-place.&quo t;

I don't think anyone is against trying to avoid it.

>> "The abortion rate could be so low that it would be next to unheard of. Last time I checked, immaculate conception doesn't happen daily."

No, accidental conception does. Of course, if you got two brain cells to rub together, the probability of this can be quite low.

>> "So far, I've managed to screw without having a child or having it end up in an abortion. It's possible. You'll have to trust me on this."

And I have flipped a coin and it came up tails twice in a row. Therefore, the coin only has one side.

;)


And by the way, I highly doubt Jesus the second would be stopped by an abortion.
"You wanna vacuum me muthafucka?! Get outta my hizzie!"

(That's right, the next Jesus is black. And a woman. And a lesbian.)

It's all about individual choice and circumstance. For some people, abortion is probably the greatest thing since sliced bread, and to others its a sin. It's impossible to categorize something into black and white for everyone when no one can agree what is black, and what is white. So chalk it up to experience, and let people decide for themselves.

CONTRACEPTION FOR EVERYBODY! some state-sponsored sterilization would solve a lot of issues....

Contraception for everybody. It seems like a good idea. You make a deposit in the sperm bank and they sterilize ya. If you really want to have a kid later on, you use the boys in the bank.

Assuming that worked perfectly though, it wouldn't necessarily be any better. Once the risk of pregnancy is gone, people would be much more careless about protection, and STDs would have a field day.

That said, I would totally go for that program.

I think we can all agree on one fact ...

George Foreman in his prime > Anti-Lock Brakes

the thing about abortion is, if every embryo is a potential child and therefore has the same rights, couldnt the same be said about every sperm?

if so, i'm a serial killer!

I agree that people shouldn't put themselves in that position. IF it ever arises though, the girl should be given the right to abortion. The guy shouldn't have much of a say. He doesn't have to deal with pregnanvy, birth, or years of caring for the child [or the saddness of abandoning it for adoption]. And then, like stevie said, what if its rape?

I know that if I were raped, and I was told I not only had to deal with that, but carry an unwanted child and give birth to it which could potentially destroy my university years, and screw up my programme, there would be RAGE.

Yup. That's why the Roman Catholics once (or still do, I'm not sure) said that masturbating was a sin, as well as using contraception.

From Piux XI, Casti Connubii (
"54. But no reason, however grave, may be put forward by which anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious."

Furthermore..
"As St. Augustine notes, "Intercourse even with one's legitimate wife is unlawful and wicked where the conception of the offspring is prevented. Onan, the son of Juda, did this and the Lord killed him for it."

Not only are you a serial killer by masturbating, if you use condoms, God will probably kill you.

I wonder if mohammed would let me mastrubate.

Maybe buddha lets us beat it?

Perhaps Hinduism isn't against handy's.

In any case, I'm 'getting off' the Catholic bus.

This should solve all your wicked masturbatory practices.

[Link]

I don't know how any amount of people can sit there and say that it is ok to murder a baby. It is not ok under and circumstances for someone to kill someone. If I was walking down the street and decided that I wanted to just stab or shoot someone then I would go to jail. There is nothing different with killing a baby. Any person that receives an abortion is a murderer. "the saddness of abandoning a child to adoption" if you think that it is sad to abandon a child to adoption...then you shouldn't be having sex if you aren't ready to face the consequences of your actions. There are THOUSANDS of people that are trying to have children can can't for various reasons and then we have people that think it is "sad" to give a child up for adoption. Imagine how happy you could making another person that is unable to have children. Everytime you engage in sexual intercourse you run the risk of getting pregnant. But just because you want to get laid it is ok to just murder the product of your stupid actions. Why is that alright? Furthermore, "the guy shouldn't have a say" are you kidding me. The father has just as much say as the mother of the baby. It is his child too. You might be referring to stupid low lifes that want to have nothing to do with their child but some men are responsible and I am sure that they wouldn't want their child murdered. Also...does anyone realize that not only are you killing a baby but what happens to a womens body when she undergoes this procedure? There is immense pain and tramatization and the possiblity of never having children every again.(Just to name a few side-effects) But I guess if you are willing to get an abortion than maybe it is a good thing that you will have the possibility of never having a child EVER later on down the road. And lastly who is to say that the child that is being murdered by abortion isn't the person that was going to find the cure to cancer. What if Martin Luther King's mother had decided to abort him...then all the negroes would possibly still be enslaved.

Sheldon, stop trolling your own site.

If "Julia Gulia" is not Sheldon, please get a clue before posting.
1. A zygote is not a baby, (although I agree abortions should be limited to the first trimester)
2. The mother is impacted much more than the father and therefore should have all or most of the decision making power.
3. Societal pressures influence change, not individuals. If Martin Luther King had not existed, someone else would have taken his place. (Hint, MLK did not free the slaves). If Einstein had not been born, someone else would have made the same discoveries a few years later.
4. Whether thousands of people cannot have children or not is irrelevant.
5. The risk of infertility from an abortion is very low. (Unless you try to perform the abortion yourself).

haha, okay, that honestly wasn't me. I even double checked the IPs just to see if I wasn't sleep-posting.

Yes, Julia Gulia is a name from the Wedding Singer. It was on TV the other day. If I was gonna troll under that name, I think I would have spelled it Ghoulia or Goulia. Sheesh!

haha! good one.

If you polled all the prisons in the land, I'll bet most of the prisoners will say they had a pretty screwed up childhood.

Now, if we can link an unwanted pregnancy to an unwanted child and all the things that go along with it, its safe to say that it may be a pretty messed up childhood.

So, if we forced all these women to have the babies, even tho they are unwanted, they'd end up with an unstable childhood environment, > screwed up childhood.

If this is the case, wouldn't abortion be a crime-fighter?

I'm a little offended :\ I DON'T have sex. Please don't quote me and then make terrible assumptions. Thats not very nice!

I wasn't meaning just you. I mean't people in general. When anyone has sex there is a chance for anyone to get pregnant. Unless you are gay and are doing someone up the ass. But that is another story.

Ain't got no job
Ain't got no smoke
Ain't got a car
His life's a joke

Living on the skids
Thinks the world's just fine
Forgot what he did
Dancing on the breadline

No one there to bind him
Nothing to remind him
Nowhere left to find him

About to lose his lifeline
He's dancing on the breadline

Forgot who he is
Forgot who he was
Used to call the shots
Now he can't connect the dots

A mover and shaker
Getting closer to his maker
Lower than a hemline
Dancing on the breadline

No one there to bind him
Nothing to remind him
Nowhere left to find him

About to lose his lifeline
He's looking for a headline
Sniffing up the white lines
He's dancing on the breadline

Watch him dance

About to lose his lifeline
He's looking for a headline
Sniffing up the white lines
He's dancing on the breadline
About to lose his lifeline
He's dancing on the breadline

No one, nothing, nowhere
Dancing on the breadline

He forgot and he ain't got nothing

Wow, lots of debate on this one, didn't expect that!
Anways, re: Julia Gulia comments on "There are THOUSANDS of people that are trying to have children can can't for various reasons and then we have people that think it is "sad" to give a child up for adoption. Imagine how happy you could making another person that is unable to have children." Yeah, right, and there's thousands of children already out there who need a home, so we don't need to try to make more. If people were'nt so damned racist to think they can only adopt children from our country, lots of little children from all over the world would have a happy life in North America. So don't try to sell the idea you're doing a good deed for someone by giving your unwanted child up for adoption. There's already enough children needing a home.

A zygote is not a baby, i agree, but a lot more things happen in the first trimester, and by that time, it is practically a baby. By the fourth week, the embryo has a beating heart!

Ok, first of all I never said we needed to try to make more children. I realize that there are children in other parts of the world that need a homes too. But the last time I checked this topic was about abortion. And I was suggesting that instead of murdering a baby there are other options and one of those options includes giving the child up for adoption. And then I was just stating the consequence of not killing your child and giving it to a family that can't have children.

Let’s take the adoption idea one step further. If you can’t have a baby of your own, you could adopt from another country… or go adopt one of those 10 year old kids that’s living in a foster home! You know what? They’re a pretty hard product to sell. Why? Because people want to deal with them even less than adopted kids. People want things brand new, in nice shiny packages. Saying you would rather keep an unwanted pregnancy and then give it up for adoption is similar to saying you’re saving the planet by recycling. But you still went out and bought that 48 pack of Evian water at Costco. Maybe it would have been a better idea to get one giant bottle of water. Or to have the abortion; there is no shortage of people in the world. Now let’s all go have some sex and not have some babies!

"People want things brand new, in nice shiny packages."

YES! Microwaveable preferably.

Would you eat regurgitated Big Mac's? No? So why settle for adopted babies?? HYPOCRITE!

zygote, egg yolk, about the same level of human.

thats right! you're eating babies for breakfast!

A friend of the families knows a doctor who refused to give his patient an abortion because it was not due to rape and she was physically and financially capable of having a child.

After she left the office, she walked down the hall and right out the 5th story window.

When she hit the cement, it was a completely successful abortion - in the end, the final choice is always the woman's.

That said, I know of single dads who are doing very well (don't know if they had to prevent an abortion) - so if the dad wants to keep the baby and this can be worked out then that is a good thing.

One other thing - it could be another Einstein, but it could also be another Jeffery Dalmer, Charles Manson, Hitler,...

nice site [Link]

Great site... and great answers to stupid questions :)